Is there a double standard here? On the
one hand, you got reform giving press
conferences about the plight of women
and girls. On the other, they'd seem to
be in a bit of a tears about whether
they would send women and girls back to
the countries that they were fleeing
persecution from in the same in the
first place, including potentially
striking deals with governments and
organizations like the Taliban. Is this
just a massive dose of hypocrisy? They
care about some women and girls. They're
willing to send other women and girls
back to endure a barely imaginable fate.
034560973.
Elsewhere today, a boost for Farage, who
as part of his plan yesterday demanded
that the Labor government scrap or at
least pull the UK out of the European
Convention on Human Rights, which he
said is a barrier, an obstacle to
stopping the people coming here on small
boats. A boost. He's been backed by two
former Labour home secretaries. Jack
Straw says that is a good idea. So too
does Lord David Blunket, former home
secretary between 20 uh 2001 and 2004,
former education secretary, now a Labour
Pier, who I'm delighted to say joins me
now. Lord Blunky, great to have you with
us here on LBC. Thank you for coming on.
Why is the ECR, as it's called, a
problem, and what would you like to see
your party in government do about it?
Afternoon.
>> Well, it's it's not universally a
problem. I ought to make it clear I
haven't said anything today. I came on
your program although my wife and I have
got co
>> just to try and clarify what I have said
>> which is that there is a problem. Um the
problem is very specific. It's about the
appeals process which currently has
51,000 people who have gone through the
initial um process of assessment been
refused asylum and appealed and have
been held up in that appeals process for
over a year and that is totally
unacceptable and what I was talking
about and I haven't heard what Jack
Straw said so I can't speak for him is
that there are parts of the ECR which
I've used the term suspend earlier
earlier in the week.
>> Yes.
>> Um the technical term is dergate and the
reason it's a technical term is that
it's been used well for the last 50
years including by previous governments
and by governments across Europe for
particular articles of the ECR. So not
pulling out of or suspending the ECR
full stop but actually particular
articles for instance article 8 which is
about the right to family life where
people have been able to string out
their appeals on sometimes speurious
grounds suspend that for a period i.e.
dergate for a period and you can get
this sorted and that would be one just
one contribution in addition to what the
government are already doing because
they're doing a lot but they're small
announcements unlike far's big
announcement yesterday he got what he
wanted Ben he got the publicity never
mind the truth or the complications or
the difficulties or whether he would
ever ever be able to implement it uh
whereas when you're in government you
have to come up with things that you
know will work. And I think a
combination of uh introducing digital ID
uh which I've long been in favor of uh
working with the French because Karma
has got a good relationship now with the
president um Emanuel Macarron to
actually put in place a licensing
program that would stop the boats
because the biggest problem of course is
you can't do anything until the boat's
been launched uh and the smugglers are
getting migrants on board. So trying to
stop the boats in France by licensing
them. So you couldn't purchase, you
couldn't transport, you couldn't sell a
boat uh without a license. Then the
police and security services could
intervene early. So there are ideas that
I think we could add into the mix,
including being quite robust about
particular aspects of conventions which
are no longer working. But it's very
different to saying we're going to pull
out. If we pulled out of the ECR, we'd
immediately scupper the Good Friday
agreement that was reached in 98. We'd
undermine all our relationships,
>> which was Nigel Faraj's proposal. It
seems to me a little blunky. You're sort
of somewhere between where Karma and the
Labor government is and Nigel Farage.
You don't want us to pull out
completely, but you would like Karmama
to go further than he currently is on
the ECR because the government is sort
of is pouring cold water on the idea of
any reform of the ECHR? I would I would
on deraggation which we have used. I
used it when I was secretary after the
attack on the World Trade Center in New
York. Uh we have to be very careful
about this. But the ECR itself, the
agreement allows for that deriggation
for pulling out for a period for an
agreed period
>> which makes sense. Why do you think the
government is is resistant to doing
that?
>> I I think that part of the difficulty
over the last 12 months has been getting
ducks in order. In other words, there's
been really good announcements, things
that in the long term might make a
difference like oneinone out with the
French. Uh we put a lot of money into
France improving their border controls
and setting up a border a border force
of our own, but actually they don't add
up to a total pattern, a total picture.
And because of the toxicity of this
issue, not of migration as a whole,
don't think people mind at all students
coming to study full-time, paying their
way and contributing in the local
community, things of that sort where we
we've got shortages and we need people
for say a year's period. But I think
that the boats has really caught
people's imagination as it did on in a
different sense 25 years ago. I
inherited a situation where the similar
numbers were coming in. They were coming
back of trucks and lries, climbing into
people's cars, even hanging under the
Euro Star. We reached agreement with the
French then with measures that did work.
They worked for a decade until the
smugglers came up with this new business
model with the boats. Now we've got to
go back and do the same thing all over
again.
>> Do you think Kistama is is serious about
this? Luck former human rights law. It
strikes me as someone who instinctively
does not get particularly exercised
about issues like illegal migration. Do
you think he is um do you think he he
cares enough about this issue and he has
got the determination to stop it in the
way that you were proposing he do?
>> Well, all the information I have is that
he he does care. He gets the politics of
it. How could you not? You only have to
travel.
>> But that doesn't mean that he feels it.
That doesn't mean he's passionate. It
doesn't mean he sits up at night
thinking about how do I stop the boat. I
I think he's been at the moment caught
up with trying to deal with Donald
Trump, trying to deal with international
defense and security and and trade
policy. So, he's had a a bellyful really
over the last few months of very major
international issues. This domestic
issue, because it that's what it is, has
to be now top of the agenda in the
autumn. And I'm sure
>> why why does that you got a cost of
living crisis. You got people who can't
pay the bills. You got an NHS that is on
its knees. You got schools with record
class sizes. You got we're talking the
last hour about youth unemployment. Why
does all of that pale in comparison to
stopping the boats? Why should it be top
of the priority list?
>> Well, it's it's politics. It's because
every day, including now, you and I are
talking about this. I used to I used to
smile 25 nearly 25 years ago when people
used to say to me on interviews, we
don't talk enough about migration, do
we? I said, we're talking about it. We
talk about nothing else at the moment.
>> Just because we talk about it doesn't
mean it is the most important thing. I
would say the government's top priority
should be making people better off.
>> It it doesn't. But if 70% of the
population believe that it is the top
priority, I'm afraid in a democracy it
has to be the top priority. In other
words, you can't bury your head in the
sand bend. You you you take where you
are, you do something about it. You get
a balanced, sensitive, sensible
approach, and then other issues start to
get into the public arena and start to
care. I care deeply about the 900,000
plus who are not in employment,
education, or training between 16 and
24. It seems to me that that along with
this issue are the two big challenges of
the months ahead.
>> Just just a word finally, Lord Blancet,
on the the another element of the Farage
plan, this sort of proposal of doing
deals with countries even like
Afghanistan and the Taliban in order to
deport more people. Should Britain be
striking returns agreements with the
Taliban?
>> No, we shouldn't. We can't possibly. We
we uh we fought the war to try and free
women and children from the persecution,
the oppression that is the hallmark of
the Taliban. Uh we certainly can't go
back on that. We can extend the number
of countries which we believe there's
over 20 on the list at the moment we
believe are safe or at least a
substantial part of the country is safe
enough for people to be returned to. And
we've got to be able to do that to
demonstrate that we're tough in terms of
protecting our borders. But but there
are lines to be drawn. And the
difference between Nigel Farage and my
party is that those lines stop when
people are going to be put to death and
torture.